Tuesday, October 10, 2006

Survey finds Turkey longing for Caliphate

Yes, I know that public opinion surveys are often problematic even under the most favorable of circumstances. And conducting such polls in Muslim countries is even more so, considering the fact that Islamic states absolutely do not allow the freedom to answer poll questions openly, honestly or completely (even for supposedly "anonymous" polls).

Nevertheless, I think this one poll called "Transatlantic Trends" taken earlier this year by the US NGO German Marshall Fund may be on to something.

Note this key finding:

The survey’s most striking finding is the degree to which Turks now question their ties to the United States and Europe, and have warmed to Iran, their neighbor to the east.

Any one want to guess why the Turks are falling in love with Iran and not with their infidel "friends and neighbors"? Dare I say that maybe Islam has something to do with it? Oh no, I must be a Islamophobe for thinking that!

The remainder of this survey's findings can be found here.

10 comments:

MadBadTurk said...

Given that Turks consider Iranians to be heretics and vice versa, I doubt your central argument holds much water. The concept that any Turks would accept the religious directives of some Grand Ayatollah has made my day, thanks.

As for the disenchantment with the US... Might there be some effect of the most cackhanded US administration in living memory? The US is the world's dominant power. It has used its power much more responsibly than other such powers had in the past. Normally, it is a beacon for freedom. But today, alas, it seems cut off from some of its roots.

You may think that the "liberation" of Iraq is a success. Turks disagree. If more Iraqis have managed to die violent deaths and have been injured since the US occupation than died under Saddam, how is this a blow for freedom and a gain for stability in the Middle East? Especially as the Turkish Government publicly warned the US administration that a venture into Iraq would need to have a far stronger occuppation force than forecast by the optimists in the US administration. And Iran - well, suffice to say that even if the US had no committments elsewhere, the occupation of Iran would require a mobilisation in the US.

But no: the US prefers half-baked solutions.

And already there is talk that the US should cut its losses. Thanks a bundle. We might not have liked Saddam Hussein in Turkey, but at least he was a predictable factor. Now you talk of quitting, with a legacy that is a country on the brink of civil war.
Why, then, should ordinary Turks *have* to like the US administration?

Add to that the amazingly unsophisticated discourse on Islam (apparently the font of all evil, full stop, no discussion needed) and you have a reason why Turks such as myself find a *few* Americans rather tiresome. It is difficult to have a discussion with a one-note trumpet.

All this being said, I would guess that the US will one day overcome this paranoid convulsion and return to its daily routine.

And finally, the Turco-Iranian border not having been changed since 25 years before New York got its present name, we apparently came to the conclusion long ago that we would rather be on non-belligerent terms with the Iranians. It may come as a surprise, but Turkey - and all the other nations on Earth - are not salve girls in the some American Sultan's harem, obedient to his every whim and (forcibly) uninterested in everyone else. We, like everyone else, prefer an open relationship. And in any relationship, if you abuse someone long enough, it will begin to sour.

Pax.

The Anti-Jihadist said...

We've abused the Turks? Thats news to me.

European Kafir said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
European Kafir said...

the turks are very friendly and non-violent people. they are very western-europe oriented, have open minds and don`t live in middle age. unlike most other islamic countries, turkey is not ruled by the sword.

i mean.. just remember the soccer game turkey vs. switzerland, that took place end of 2005: wow, what a friendly welcome at the airport for the swiss players and supporters (it`s well known that swiss people, like all westerners, enjoy getting attacked with rotten tomatoes and eggs etc.), what a non-violent crowd in the stadium (yes, swiss supporters love having to fear for their lives) and last but not least: what a friendly turkish team and members of the club.. who made the swiss players (and also the referee: of course from western europe too) run for life after the game.

let alone genocide-accusations...and turkish reaction to it.

MADBADTURK: you qualify for western standards with that kind of behaviour... NOT!!!!
so why seeking to become a member of the EU??? get real: you belong to the middle east area, just like your buddy iran... you keep proving it.
and please, don`t blame this on the USA or Europe... it`s rather pathetic, though... very typical.

EK

MadBadTurk said...

Dear Anti-Jihadist,

No, not quite. But if you do decide to critique my clothes, say, day in and day out, at the end of a long period of time, I might decide that you had something against me and not my clothes. If you get my drift, lol.


Dear European Kafir,

Frankly I had difficulty understanding your comments' relevance to the topic on hand, which I thought was the matter of a shiite Caliphate attracting Turks.

The Turkish hoodlums' actions in the national game against the Swiss was a shameful national disgrace. Even more shameful were Ottoman actions during WWI - after which a far greater number of Ottoman officials were punished than after Nuremburg. And the relevance to the shiite Caliphate would be...? You know, this kind of historic tit-for-tat doesn't really lead anywhere, because I am fairly certain everyone can dig up dirt. I would think the point would be not to cause further pain.

But I would rush to counter your other argument - that I/we blame it all on the US. I for one most categorically do NOT blame the US. As far as I am concerned, the US is one of the most admirable societies on Earth. However, I do not have to view the current administration through the (heavily) rose-tinted glasses that seem required of some members of the US Republican Party. And the US in general does have the classic imperialist belief in its manifest destiny. Been there, done that, and seen it more times than you know. *That* kind of self-righteousness I *do* find either amusing or tiresome.

As for membership of the EU: whatever gave you the idea that I was in favour? I don't think that Turkish membership of the EUSSR - as I have seen it amusingly put in another blog - would necessarily be beneficial. And I am glad to see that support for this membership is now lower in Turkey than in some EU member states. LOL.

All that being said, if Turkish membership of the EU does lead to a lessening of the sometimes silly, sometimes worrying and sometimes downright frightening tensions in the world, then I am for it.

Anyone fancy a cucumber? They're good for you.

Pax

The Anti-Jihadist said...

Well, at least you don't sound like the typical raving pro-jihad/leftist anti US troll.

The Anti-Jihadist said...

Mr Turk, and whoever else out there is reading this:

The point I was trying to making, a point Mr Turk refuses to acknowledge, is this. When Westerners fight against aggressive Muslims, even when it's against genocidal terrorists like Hamas, or simply terribly tyrants like Saddam Hussein, the global Muslim nation (the "umma") unites more than not against the unbelievers, and with double fury against Jews and their friends.

Given a choice between infidels and Shia Muslims, the Turks are going to feel sympathy towards the Shia the majority of the time.

European Kafir said...

Exactly my point, anti-jihadist. And I was only giving an example.

EK

hutchrun said...

The Muslims have always had the establishment of the caliphate as a major aim. In India this eventually lead to the mopla riots (where the great Gandhi encouraged) in the slaughter of hindus by muslims.

hutchrun said...

The Turk Nugget:

`Smite Turks with immense vigour. A Singh who obeys the Rahit does not bow when he meets a Turk. Never serve Turks, never greet a Turk, never trust Turks. Serve only the Khalsa. Avoid Muslim huttha meat. By fighting them face to face the Muslims will be defeated. Remain ever alert against the Turks. A Turk should be neither accepted as a master nor treated with deference. Keep Muslims away from your cooking-square when preparing for a langar. Muslims are polluted. [16, 20, 21, 30, 45, 46, 62, 94]`
http://allaboutsikhs.com/rehat/rehat_17.htm

"The Ottomans lurched from outrage to outrage. Regular slaughters of Armenians in Bayazid (1877), Alashgurd (1879), Sassun (1894), Constantinople (1896), Adana (1909) and Armenia itself (1895-96) claimed a total of two hundred thousand lives, but they were only rehearsals for the genocide of 1915. The slaughter of Christians in Alexandria in 1881 was only a rehearsal for the artificial famine induced by the Turks in 1915-16 that killed over a hundred thousand Maronite Christians in Lebanon and Syria. So imminent and ever-present was the peril, and so fresh the memory of these events in the minds of the non-Moslems, that illiterate Christian mothers dated events as so many years before or after "such and such a massacre." Across the Middle East, the bloodshed of 1915-1922 finally destroyed ancient Christian communities and cultures that had survived since Roman times-groups like the Jacobites (Syrian Orthodox), Nestorians (Iraqi Orthodox), and Chaldaeans (Iraqi Catholic)...
http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=16059