My Islamic opponent Mr. Ghazi has stopped smacking his head on the mosque floor long enough to make some additional comments at our fair site. And no, he's not bothering to apologize for the Mumbai massacre or express any sympathy for the many victims and their families. Nope, Mr. Ghazi has far more important things to do. He needs to rebut my arguments! Or at least try to.
Is it wrong nowadays for a Muslim to forgive those who are not?? ... Regarding killing of apostates, yes it is true. But it's not as simple as what you think. We have strict rules regarding the issue. You have any problem with that? Why should you? You are not considering of becoming a Muslim after all!
Yeah, I have a problem with killing 'apostates', big time. The execution of anyone wanting to leave is Islam is such a monstrosity, that giving it rules and procedures does nothing to cover the blatant injustice of the very idea. To quote an American politician from a different context, it's like putting lipstick on a pig.
"Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship,Nor will ye worship that which I worship.And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,Nor will ye worship that which I worship.To you be your Way, and to me mine".
Mr Ghazi neglects to tell you that this part of his 'holy' book that he quotes has been abrogated, or canceled out by the later and more violent and intolerant 'Medinan' verses. Of course, he fails to realize that killing of apostates, which he admits is true, violates this part of the Quran. But hey, since the verse has been abrogated, Mr. Ghazi has no problem for lining up the apostates against the wall to be shot/hanged/stoned/etc. The alleged forgiveness of Islam or Muslims, it seems, is not extended to anyone wanting out of Islam.
Innocent people are women, elderly, clergymen (priests, nuns, monks, rabbi etc) and children - who are unable to bear arms.
These supposed 'innocents' as described by Mr. Ghazi are not safe, not from the the Jihad or from Muslims who kill in the name of Allah. Here's a recent development from Egypt:
20.000 Muslims attack Coptic Church in Egypt
Nov 28, 2008: One thousand Christians were today trapped inside the Coptic Orthodox Church of the Virgin Mary in West Ain Shams, Cairo, after more than twenty thousand Muslims attacked them with stones and butane gas cylinders. The Church’s priest Father Antonious said that the situation is extremely dangerous.
The Muslim mob that attacked the church blocked both sides of the street and encircled the church building, broke its doors and demolished its entire first floor. The mob were chanting Jihad verses as well as slogans saying “we will demolish the church” and “We sacrifice our blood and souls, we sacrifice ourselves for you, Islam”, while the entrapped Christians chanted “Lord have mercy”.
In other news from this past week, Jihadists self detonated at a mosque in Iraq and outside the US Embassy in Kabul, killing civilians in both instances.
Didn't these good Muslims get the memo from the Khilafah folks about who's fair game for the jihad? It all sounds very merciful and forgiving of those Muslims, doesn't it? Of course, incidents like these are as common in Dar al Islam as they are often unreported by the major media. And, it goes without saying, that such incidents of Muslim mob justice and Quranic-inspired violence go uncommented upon, unlamented and uncondemned by any Muslim or any Muslim group.
Indiscriminate killing (e.g. by bombing shopping complexes) is against the teachings of Islam. Whereas killing the army of invaders, be it on the battlefield or in the club, is part of defensive jihad in order to expel them and reclaim the rights of the oppressed.
'An army of invaders', he says. Again, another rhetorical loophole which can mean whatever the bloodyhell one pleases. Many Muslims and cohorts of Mr. Ghazi (and almost certainly, Mr. Ghazi himself) see all of Israel as an 'army of invaders', meaning they're fair game for the so-called 'defensive jihad'. Firing rockets blindly on Israel civilians from Gaza is no problem with Muslims at all...it's 'defensive jihad' dontchasee. But wait, isn't even 'defensive jihad' against your self-declared policy of non violence, Mr. Ghazi?
And as for the 'rights of the oppressed' that he mentions, this is code and I shall translate it. "Oppressed" only means Muslims in his context, never any other group, and Muslims 'rights' means the 'right' to have Islam rule supreme.
As for Sunni-Syiah reconciliation, I am very optimistic about it. I don't have to tell you anything about measures taken in the past, present, and also planned for the future. Not a single word. Don't forget the fact that you are my enemy.
Dear infidel readers, you're supposed to take the Great Reconciliation of Shia ('Syiah') and Sunni on faith, as there's no visible evidence for it in the real world. Not that I'd welcome such developments in any event. But after a thousand years of their feuding and intra-Muslim violence, with Sunni and Shia fighting and killing each other relentlessly, I don't see the inter-factional warfare magically resolving itself anytime soon. If ever. So, when one Muslim blogger claims that it's all about to become 'kumbaiyya' in Islamia, color me a tiny bit skeptical.
Regarding Ahmadiyah, the teaching is deviated from the true Islamic teaching. You are trying to defame Hizbut Tahrir Indonesia. HTI are calling for the ban of the cult and demanding the followers to repent, not for the killing of its members. Try not to view the issue from your biased point of view.
Mr. Ghazi of course holds himself and his movement as the final arbiters of Islamic theology. And you proclaim that Ahmadiyya is a cult now? Whoa, but isn't Islam all about tolerance and 'To you be your Way, and to me mine' and all that? So why the obsession with the so-called 'heretics'? If your movement is supposedly all about tolerance, why can't you Khilafah types just leave the 'cult' alone? And haven't many esteemed clerics and imams declared the Shia to be 'heretics' just like the Ahmadiyyas supposedly are? So, isn't reconciliation with Shia equally as wrong as leaving the Ahmadiyya 'cult' alone?
Those who chanted "Kill, kill, kill" are rather emotional than being rational. I'm all against such act of violence.
You mean you're only now disavowing those calls to violence in Java? Now, talk about chutzpah! It turns out that the wall of separation between Javanese in the Ahmadiyya mosque who shouted 'kill kill' and the Muslims in Mumbai who did 'kill kill'--that separation is gossamer thin.
You want to know what 'good manner' is? Well, one thing for sure, it's not like what we have read in this blog. Referring Muslims as Mohammedans, insulting Prophet Muhammad by calling him as 'Mo', putting Nazi's swastika along with word 'Islam', blaming Islam for some Muslims wrongdoings (which were against Islamic teaching), making false accusations, intentionally mis-interpreting Al-Quran and prophet's tradition so that others will view Islam with hatred etc. are absolutely not part of 'good manner'. That's for sure. Is it that hard for a smart guy like you to figure it out?
It's called 'freedom of speech', a kufr concept I know you either don't know about, don't care to know about, or more likely, a principle you utterly reject. Since I'm your enemy (as you admit) and not a Muslim, Muslim rules absolutely do not apply to me, my contributors, or this blog. And furthermore, you can never impose your brand of totalitarianism on us, even though you clearly want to.
Mr. Ghazi and his ilk, of course, are always going to be far more offended at my presence and my criticism of his ideology, than he will ever be with the indiscriminate killings committed in the name of his Allah (Mumbai et al). In the twisted ethical universe of Islam, rejecting Mohammed is a greater crime than mass murder.
Perhaps you are stuck at the point where I revealed the double-standard act of the champion for democracy and so-called 'freedom' - United States of America..?The imperialistic nature of US (and her allies), and the ugly truth of capitalism are hard for you to swallow??
You have lost the war of idea, that's why you guys changed tactics and started to make fool of yourselves by making blind accusations, intended mis-interpretations and blatant lies against Islam.