Monday, August 17, 2009

We Kept Shouting Louder And Louder And All We Heard Was Our Own Echo


An innocent girl appeared on TV some days ago. She looked scared and shaken. Many people accused her and still accuse her of lying. They say, "she wants attention". They accuse her of being brainwashed. Instead of feeling sympathy for her and trying to protect her like they would do in case a 17 year old was in danger, they throw baseless accusations at her. Why? What is it that she did that was so evil that it was proof enough for the mainstream media and everyday individuals to decisively conclude that she was lying? Her biggest sin and crime: She claimed that she was from a Muslim background, she had converted to Christianity and because of the teaching of Islam, her father threatened to kill her.

Her story surfaced on the blogs and ABC News. "Is she for real?" Was the question. Instead of trying to see whether she was in real danger or not, people tried to discredit what she was saying and they did that so many times that now she has disappeared from the news altogether. There are no further updates. We don't know what happened to her excpet that there's a court hearing on August 21.

It is true that she has been attacked. But she has been attacked not because of anything wrong that she said. No one took what she said and examined it against Islamic scriptures. She has been attacked because she said something about Islam that people don't want to hear. "Islam is a religion of peace", we hear, "what she claims is impossible". "A father can never actually kill his child...its an empty threat that she is blowing out of proportion"--is she really? When Cassius Clay converted to "Nation Of Islam", he didn't claim his parents were threatening to kill him. When Cat Stevens converted to Islam, he didn't claim that either. Take any example out there of people that convert into Islam and you won't find anyone being threatened like this. Why is it that only people that leave Islam are threatened? Is it a fabrication? Are all ex-Muslims lying? Does everyone really hate Islam so much as to create lies upon lies just like these Muslims claim? Or is Islam really getting a free pass here? Doesn't it sound like we have already accepted the Dhimmi status without actually raising the white flag?

Why do I care about this girl who is being treated in America exactly like she'd be treated in Saudi Arabia? Do I know her personally to vouch for what she is saying? Do I even know her full name? No. I care about her because 5 years ago, these were the fears I had to deal with. I had to think where to run and how to escape if my parents found out about who I was. Did I think back then that my parents were just evil people out to kill anything and everything in their way? No, I knew well enough that they loved me and I don't doubt that even today. Just like I don't doubt that their love for Islam is far greater than anything else in this world, including their children. And that is what Rifqa knows to be true about her parents. She knows her parents love her but she also knows that her parents love Islam more--they can't be Muslims if they didn't. However, I have to ask this question. Are my and Rifqa's fears based on anything real? Has it ever happened before that parents have killed their children for Islam or is it only a figment of my and Rifqa's imagination as the media seems to assume? I will write breifly about two such cases. Lets see:

  1. A Saudi father cuts his daughter's tongue off and then burns her to death for converting to Christianity. Her crime? She converted to Christianity. Did this happen in 640 AD? Is this a story of a serial killer that kills for fun? Was the father mentally (and medically) deranged? The answer to all those questions is NO. The father loved his daughter but he loved Islam more. Read the whole story here.

  2. A Jordanian man stabs his daughter 5 times and then smashes her skull with a large rock. Her crime? Her husband and her converted to Christianity. Again, it didn't happen in 640 AD nor is it a story of a serial killer nor was the father mentally (medically) deranged. Again, the father loved his daughter but he loved Islam more. Read the whole story here.

Before accusing Rifqa of lying through her teeth, people should have investigated a little. People that criticized should have realized that Islam, just like anything else in the world, is not above critcism.

If the readers read the two stories mentioned above with open minds then they might want to know the answer to the following questions: What is it that makes a parent take their own child's life? What makes the parents have the courage to lift up their hand and end the life they started in the first place? Mohammed once said, "None of you will have faith till he loves me more than his father, his children and all mankind" (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 14). While its true that Jesus said something to that effect as well, he never said this, "Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him" (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57). Neither would one be able to find the Christian version of, "Allah's Apostle said, 'The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims." (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 83, Number 17). It is no secret that Mohammed was able to gain support in Medina through words like these. It is no secret that even early on Mohammed was able to turn fathers against children, siblings against one another and tribe members against their tribal brethren.

There is a popular tradition about Abu Bakr, Mohammed's most loyal follower, best friend and the first caliph of Islam. He was the closest to Mohammed. He loved Mohammed with all his heart. Ayesha, Mohammed's child bride, was his daughter. If anyone other than Mohammed would know Islam, it would be Abu Bakr. A dialogue took palce between Abu Bakr and his then "infidel" son in a well known story: "'O Father, at Badr, you were twice under my sword, but my love for you held my hand back.' To this, Abu Bakr replied, 'Son, if I had you only once under my sword, you would have been no more.'" (Encyclopedia of Islam, Page 192). Abu Bakr was known as "Siddiq" which means "truthful". He was known as a moderate man who was even merciful to his enemies. The quote above is this moderate Muslim's words. When people call someone a moderate Muslim and then try to present that as proof that this guy is a peaceful person who just wants to live peacefully with the rest of humanity, to us "apostates" that doesn't make any difference. A Muslim is a Muslim. Call him moderate or fundamentalist, it doesn't matter. Now, I've presented examples from the hadiths that show Muslims would, should and can kill "infidels", but is there anything similar in the Quran?

"What aileth you that ye are become two parties regarding the hypocrites, when Allah cast them back (to disbelief) because of what they earned? Seek ye to guide him whom Allah hath sent astray? He whom Allah sendeth astray, for him thou (O Muhammad) canst not find a road. They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them." This quotation is from the Quran's Sura 4, verses 88-89. Read it without the special notes in parentheses, for these are additions by interpreters. It is little wonder then that the whole of Sunni Islamic world, which is comprised of over 85% of the Muslim world, is unanimous on the punishment of apostates--that they should be killed. The scholars only differ on whether to kill the apostates when they make it public or even when only a couple of people know about it.

After reading all that, I would ask another question: Why are people so loyal to Mohammed? It wasn't just his friends that would raise their sword at one word from Mohammed, it is all his followers. This calls for another article altogether, or maybe a book. However, in short, there are many reasons for this loyalty, however, one of the biggest reasons is fear and love of Mohammed. This love (or fear) is not baseless. Allah adorns Mohammed with praise verse after verse. We read, "Say:(O Muhammad)! “If you do love Allah, follow me: Allah will love you and forgive you your sins, for Allah is oft-forgiving, most merciful.” (Sura 3, verse 31). Again Allah informs us that, "Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembereth Allah much." Yes, the Quran tells you that if you want to go to paradise then do what Mohammed did and said. And what Mohammed did and said is recorded in his bioigraphy and the hadiths, some of which I have quoted above.

But would anyone love Mohammed so much as to be able to kill their own children? What is it that drives a human being to do that? What is it that gives him that power? When the Quran tells you to not have pity at all, no compassion whatsoever when you're punishing an adulterer or an adulteress with a 100 lashes (Sura 24, verse 2), how much more are you prone to not have any compassion when someone insults the god of Islam by leaving his religion and announcing it publicly? However, still its hard to believe that a parent would kill their child but is that how Islam views it? "O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers." (Sura 9, verse 23). Mohammed made sure every step of the way that the people that followed him were loyal to him and only him. He made sure that none of the tribal connections or blood relations were going to come in the way. He was very successful in that as we see in the history of Islam. It was tribesmen attacking their own tribes, parents attacking children, brothers attacking brothers. For Mohammed to be successful, this had to be instilled in the minds of Muslims. Only Muslims are your friends and everyone else is your enemy. To a Muslim, you're either a Muslim or a non-Muslim. Family values are secondary, Mohammed comes first. All family bond are broken once you leave Islam.

I have tried here to show why it is easy for a Muslim parent to "pull the trigger" and kill their child. This post is way too brief for a topic like this. Islam is not just a religion that teaches you spirituality. Islam controls every aspect of your life. You don't just go to the mosque and pray 5 times a day, but you live and breathe Islam. Whatever you do, Allah and Mohammed come first. You are a Muslim before you become a child, sibling or a parent. You are a slave of Allah before you become a human. When Rifqa cries on camera and says, "you guys won't understand", I know what she means. I can try to write a 100 posts about why Rifqa is so scared but you would never know the actual depth of Islam until you actually experience it yourself. I hope you never do, but it is nearly impossible to comprehend how strong the clutches of Islam are. I said "nearly impossible", however, not "completely impossible". Finally, I just want to close this post with another terrifying reminder to ALL OF US from the Quran: "There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: 'We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred forever,- unless you believe in Allah and Him alone." (Sura 60, verse 4).

10 comments:

Michael Travis said...

This cannot be true!

Islam is the Religion of Peace...GWBushki told us so!

Whatever you do...Do not, I repeat, do not go on Paltalk and listen to those ex-Muslims and their Christian-Arab-Persian-Indonesian friends.

Shalom

Avenging Apostate said...

Michael Travis,

I reall hope the Muslims get what you're saying. I doubt it completely but I still do hope!

Canadian said...

This is what the evangelical radical Christians told Rifqa to say. have we heard the other side of the story? Have we heard what her parents really said or want to do with her? The answer is no. This is a one-sided article, and the media outlets never reached out to her parents.
There is no punishment for apostasy in Islam. That's a myth based on a fake Hadith. The Holy Quran enforces the freedom of religion and expression verse after verse. Killing apostates is a Biblical law, not Islamic one. It is mentioned 2 times I believe in the Bible to kill apostates.

The story about the murder of the Saudi girl was proven to be fake and a hoax. No girl converted to Christianity and no girl was murdered in the first place. But you will never read this in the media or at hate sites like Jihad watch.
As for the Jordanian woman I am not sure, but I know that a Christian Jordanian man was killed by his family members after converting to Islam few years ago. Many people who convert from Christianity to Islam in conservative societies are persecuted or killed, but you will never hear this in the media.

"It is no secret that even early on Mohammed was able to turn fathers against children, siblings against one another and tribe members against their tribal brethren."

Nonsense. Nothing to that effect was mandated in the Holy Quran.

Your Hadiths and story about Abu Bakr and his son are fake. They were invented hundreds of years after the death of Muhammad and Abu Bakr.

"When people call someone a moderate Muslim and then try to present that as proof that this guy is a peaceful person who just wants to live peacefully with the rest of humanity, to us "apostates" that doesn't make any difference. A Muslim is a Muslim. Call him moderate or fundamentalist, it doesn't matter."

None really cares about what haters like you say or do, that is if you were an 'apostate" in the first place. To me you sound more like a right wing radical Christian supremacist.

""What aileth you that ye are become two parties regarding the hypocrites, when Allah cast them back (to disbelief) because of what they earned? Seek ye to guide him whom Allah hath sent astray? He whom Allah sendeth astray, for him thou (O Muhammad) canst not find a road. They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them." This quotation is from the Quran's Sura 4, verses 88-89. Read it without the special notes in parentheses, for these are additions by interpreters. It is little wonder then that the whole of Sunni Islamic world, which is comprised of over 85% of the Muslim world, is unanimous on the punishment of apostates--that they should be killed. The scholars only differ on whether to kill the apostates when they make it public or even when only a couple of people know about it."

This is outrageous. Where on earth does the verse even mention apostates or abandoning religion? It is talking about hypocrites. People who insincerely ally with Muslims during war but then return to their hypocritical ways and betray them. Death is their just punishment. This is not about converting or de-converting and the Holy Quran stresses the freedom of religion in many verses.

Canadian said...

"Yes, the Quran tells you that if you want to go to paradise then do what Mohammed did and said. And what Mohammed did and said is recorded in his bioigraphy and the hadiths, some of which I have quoted above."

Wrong. The Quran says if you want to go to Paradise follow the commandments of God as Muhammad followed them. This is all mentioned in the Quran. The so called Hadiths and biography are fake and have nothing to do with Muhammad. They were written 150-200 after his death.

"When the Quran tells you to not have pity at all, no compassion whatsoever when you're punishing an adulterer or an adulteress with a 100 lashes (Sura 24, verse 2),"

This is not mandatory. It is the maximum punishment for people who continuously commit adultery. Also do not forget that lashing is prescribed in the Bible for silly sins.

""O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers." (Sura 9, verse 23)."

It is only asking us to not take them as religious authority (Awliya). Makes sense to me. But They can still be our friends and relatives.
But Jesus said that if you do not hate your entire family and follow him then you will be burnt in brimstone. So much for compassion and family values!

"He was very successful in that as we see in the history of Islam. It was tribesmen attacking their own tribes, parents attacking children, brothers attacking brothers."

Nonsense and baseless. It is Jesus who came to cause division and make sword, not peace, to divide families and make the sons against their fathers and daughters against their mothers etc...

Canadian said...

"Only Muslims are your friends and everyone else is your enemy. To a Muslim, you're either a Muslim or a non-Muslim. Family values are secondary, Mohammed comes first. All family bond are broken once you leave Islam."

This is wrong and I proved it above. This applies strictly to Christianity though. Jesus said that if you do not hate your family and follow him then you will go to Hell. Only Christians are your friends and everyone else is your enemy. To a Christian, you're either a Christian or a non-Christian. Family values are secondary, Jesus comes first. All family bond are broken once you leave Christianity.

"When Rifqa cries on camera and says, "you guys won't understand", I know what she means."

No you do not, because she is lying and you are only a propagandist.

"Finally, I just want to close this post with another terrifying reminder to ALL OF US from the Quran: "There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: 'We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred forever,- unless you believe in Allah and Him alone." (Sura 60, verse 4)."

Why did you not quote the whole verse?

"The only exception was Abraham's saying to his father "I shall indeed pray for [God's] forgiveness for thee, although I have it not in my power to obtain anything from God in thy behalf." [And Abraham and his followers prayed:] "O our Sustainer! In Thee have we placed our trust, and unto Thee do we turn: for unto Thee is all journeys' end." [60:4]

So Abraham still was praying for his father and had compassion for him. You also ignore that it was Abraham's father and his people that first rejected him and were quit of him and even threw him into fire to burn him!! Abraham reacted to them by rejecting them because they rejected him first and tried to kill him. Abraham's reaction was what any normal person would do in our time. Still Abraham prayed for them and did not hate them.

Canadian said...

Michael Travis

Islam is a religion of peace because its teachings are peaceful, regardless of what some misguided people might say or do here or there, which happen within all faith, not because one of the worst presidents in the history of the US said so. His opinions are worthless.

Paltalk is a medium for any nobody to say whatever he wants, I never understood why that program is so famous.
Whatever you do...Do not, I repeat, do not go on Paltalk and listen to those ex-Christians and their American-European-Latino-Asian friends.

Peace.

Avenging Apostate said...

Canadian,

Two words: No Sources. In your haste to team up with your kind, you wrote a lengthy comment, however, you ended up repeating the same crap that I have heard and read over and over from the so called moderate Muslims.

You can keep on dismissing all the hadiths and media reports as false but that isn't going to change the facts. About the Saudi girl...fake? REALLY NOW! That really was a gem from you. I think you forgot to look up where I live and where I was born. It probably never occured to you that I actually know of people who were in direct contact with that Saudi girl.

Oh no. Listen, canadian, no one gives a flying rat's butt what you think true or fake is. Just because you close your eyes to the truth doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Next time when you comment, bring something original.

Canadian said...

"Two words: No Sources"

I had some sources in my comment. That was a quick reply anyway, but there are sources out there to back up my claims, you can rest assured on that.

"In your haste to team up with your kind, you wrote a lengthy comment, however, you ended up repeating the same crap that I have heard and read over and over from the so called moderate Muslims."

And your response is typical of the responses I get from all the Islam-hateful and racists.

"You can keep on dismissing all the hadiths and media reports as false but that isn't going to change the facts"

Hadiths are fake. That was shown by Muslims and even non-Muslims scholars.
Many times the media resporets wrong or misleading information. This is well known.

"About the Saudi girl...fake? REALLY NOW! That really was a gem from you."

Yes, it is FAKE.

"I think you forgot to look up where I live and where I was born."

I do not care about all of that. All I know is that you cannot be an Arab, because no Arab would not betray the country that he lives in and supports Israel, a country in historical enmity in the same country that is giving you shelter and work!

"It probably never occured to you that I actually know of people who were in direct contact with that Saudi girl."

Now that is a real gem from you!
The fact is that no girl with the name "Fatima Mtery" was murdered. The local police denied it, no burial was undertaken, with no evidence from neighbours or anyone living in that area of her death. Heck even her father's name, Uthman Mtery, is not found at all in that area. It is a fictional story that was based off a rumour on an atheist site and then was popularized by another Christian website. It is just one of the many rumours one hears all over the internet.

"Oh no. Listen, canadian, no one gives a flying rat's butt what you think true or fake is"

The feelings are mutual.

"Just because you close your eyes to the truth doesn't mean it doesn't exist."

I do not close my eyes. I do not just believe in whatever the media tells me. I investigate the evidence and try to resolve unanswered questions. That's how I arrive at my convictions.

You on the other hand are a betrayer of the country that feeds you and only propagate hate and lies against Islam and its adherents.

"Next time when you comment, bring something original."

I did. You just do not want to see dissenting viewpoints from yours. Stop hating and live and let live.

Peace.

Avenging Apostate said...

Dude, seriously, no sources again. I won't reply here until I see sources. Your opinion to me personally doesn't matter.

Canadian said...

"Dude, seriously, no sources again. I won't reply here until I see sources. Your opinion to me personally doesn't matter"

OK. Which claims I made in my previous comments you believe need sourcing?
If we want a constructive conversation to reach the truth, we have to be respectful of each other's opinions.
Peace.